A couple of nights ago, Erik and I watched a riveting 2008 documentary called They Came to Play. It’s about the Van Cliburn amateur piano competition, an offshoot of the famous Van Cliburn International Piano Competition held every four years in Fort Worth, TX. In the amateur competition, 75 pianists (chosen from audition CDs sent to the organization) compete for a $2,000 cash prize and recognition of a talent that may have hitherto gone unrecognized. All 75 perform in the prelims, 25 move on to semifinals, and then the winner is selected from the 6 finalists. Competitors must be over age 35, and as far as I can tell from the film, all the judges are previous winners of the International Van Cliburn contest. The film profiles some of the fascinating entrants in the competition, going into their homes (from Oakland, CA, to Berlin, Germany) and interviewing them and their families before showing footage of them backstage and onstage in the auditorium.
We had never heard of the documentary before we joined Netflix (it’s available via their streaming option), and since Netflix had no trailer available for the film, we had no idea what to expect — except that all the user reviews were excellent. When the film started, I murmured to Erik, “If it’s not good, we can always switch to something else.” Within minutes I was captivated. It’s as emotionally resonant as the best competition-based reality shows, only without the cheap dramatic hijinks. All the profiled competitors appeared to be mature, well-balanced adults, who have managed to integrate their musical passions into their lives even if they don’t get paid for their skills. Many of them have found time for the piano even in the midst of otherwise “freakishly accomplished lives“: we saw at least two doctors, a lawyer, and a pro tennis coach (in their sumptuous homes!). But no matter the background, all these amateurs were so good, as one review put it, “see this soulful doc and… you’ll never again think that ‘amateur’ means ‘less than professional.'” I’d pay to see all these people perform, and in many cases their enthusiasm made them even more interesting to watch than better-known pianists filling concert halls all over the world. How can a professional’s stage energy compare to someone who has always loved piano and is now getting a chance to perform?
It’s impossible to watch the film — at least as an artist — without being inspired by the pianists’ commitment and exuberance (and, of course, by beautiful music played with love and skill!). I was going to write about how it made me think about the nature of creativity versus recognition; in other words, what does it mean to be utterly gifted at something, yet do it only as a hobby? (Should we even say “only” a hobby?) Of course we know it’s okay, but for ourselves and our own talents, is it something we’re comfortable with? I know I’m not, and maybe I’m just needy for attention, but if I’m super good at something, I want people to see it, and I want them to tell me!
Anyway, that’s what I was going to write about, but the more I thought about it, the more it bugged me that so many of the competitors were men. The filmmakers only profiled a few women, and of them, none had young families (whereas several of the men did). This made me wonder, is a competition like this inaccessible to young women? (As I mentioned, all competitors were above 35, so when I say “young,” I mean 35-50.) It’s not fair for me to assume this about the delightful younger men in the film, but could it be that they had the time to practice, because their partners carried the lion’s share of housework and family duties? I have a hard enough time getting my work done in the full days available to me; I cannot even imagine how anyone could manage a thriving medical practice and put in the practice hours required to compete at this level, while also picking up the kids from school, vacuuming the house, and preparing sack lunches and weeknight dinners. I can’t speak to any of the competitors’ home situations, but just going from experience, it seems like an impossible balance.
Obviously it’s easier to have time-consuming hobbies if you have a partner at home, but also, I suspect young women are much less likely to compete in such a contest anyway. Women are not socialized to be competitive, and we often put down our own skills, turning our attention instead to nurturing those around us. There’s a beautiful exploration of this in Women Don’t Ask, explaining how women’s historical confinement to the home has led us to devalue our contributions (even in a work environment) because for generations they’ve gone unpaid and unsung. It seems to me all too common that women generously support and encourage the pursuits of their partners or children, without seeking (or even imagining) similar pursuits for themselves. Again, I’m not pointing fingers at anyone in the film (or critiquing the filmmakers).
Earlier this week, I lost a good work morning in anger and annoyance when my mom called me to say she and my aunt (her sister) think I should have a baby, because I “have time” and I’m not getting any younger (I’m 29). While I’d love to have children someday, at the moment I have zero interest, and in large part it’s because I have no close-at-hand models for women who’ve become mothers and still carried on with their previous lives. It’s not to say this is impossible, I just haven’t seen it firsthand (and my friends with children are still in early enough stages of motherhood that I can’t include their experiences). It just seems that for so many women, motherhood disrupts the momentum of the parts of their lives that have nothing to do with family, whereas this isn’t usually the case for men. Even for single women I know, much of their energy goes into worrying that they won’t find partners before their biological clock stops ticking; in the meantime, single men might be lonely, but their not finding a wife by 35 has no bearing on whether they’ll get to pass on their genetic material, whereas this is a consuming question for women of childbearing age. I already feel like I’m never going to get through everything I want to accomplish, and it drives me crazy to think I’m going to have to take years out of my life (or at least 9 months plus recovery time) when I’m only just getting started on my grand plans!
There’s a lot more I could say here, but I’ve already written a lot and I’m sure it’s rambly because my thoughts on these subjects are so lengthy and complicated. I’ll return to my gender frustrations at a later date, no doubt, but for now, I’d love to hear your thoughts. And watch They Came to Play!
Tomorrow’s Open Mic will feature fiction by Helena Osorio-Zavala; she’s written a piece I think will resonate strongly with nearly everyone! See you then!
I know how you feel. We’ve talked about when to have kids too and while I don’t have interest right now, I usually just tell Devin that I’ll seriously consider it when I’m 30. Or 29 to start thinking about having kids at 30. But then I hit a moment of panic when I realize that’s only 2 years away. Or in your case… now! I probably didn’t help you out when I told Mommy that I’d think about it at 29. Maybe that got her thinking about you. π Sorry if it’s my fault.
Having children isn’t for everyone so I think you and Erik need to figure out first of all if you WANT kids ever. I think you’d both do great but yeah, they’re a time and resource suck. Right now I feel like I could do without kids but then I think about growing old without ever seeing a little me & Devin and that doesn’t sound like much fun either. So with that logic, it makes sense that I should just make plans to have them eventually. But the “eventually” can’t be too late because I don’t want to get too old to do stuff with them when they get older. So working backwards I got to 30. We’ll see if I change my mind by then, but for now, that’s my plan. Or as much of a “plan” as you can have when it comes to kids.
I was thinking the other day that I’ll probably try to have kids around 32 or 33, and now I realize that if you try at 30, and everything goes smoothly for us both, our kids might be the same age. Which would be awesome. π
Haha, I don’t know if you influenced Mommy at all. When I first quit grad school she already said I should have kids “since I’m not doing anything.” Augh.
We are sure we do want kids eventually, though we are open to adopting if we can’t produce our own. But if we were to adopt kids we might really do it much later, just because we can. (On the other hand, if you adopt from another country, their regulations can mean it is a very long time until the kid gets to come home with you. But that’s another issue entirely!) I know what you mean about not wanting to get old and never have kids. I know we feel the same way about that, for sure! How could we, having grown up in such loving big families? π
ahhh classic life dilemmas for women π¦ seriously, i can barely handle my own life/schedule let alone adding a CHILD’s well-being to the mix. i often think “what if i had to make time to take care of a child?! feed it? entertain it? take it to the doctor? educate it? i can barely do those things for MYSELF” hahaha.
Oh I know. I know!! And then even if I get my act together around taking care of myself, there are questions of what kind of example I set! I was just talking about this with my best friend, who has friends with young kids. There are so many behaviors I have right now that I would not want my child picking up. Oy.
What a very good Mormon friend told me was: it’s possible to pursue one’s career/major life goals, take care of oneself, and have a family/raise children. However, only two are possible at once. She told me that these priorities shift at different times in people’s lives, so one could theoretically have all three-just not at once. I think this is a fair assessment (even if it feels unfair!).
I think it holds true for men as well. Superficially it may seem as though they don’t have to sacrifice anything–but who’s to say that the man with 3 babies around his legs is taking care of himself, in the process of being a parent AND pursuing a passion?
I think it is true that women are encouraged to sacrifice for other people and men are not. But the unfairness of that takes its toll in unexpected ways.
As for babies, well, egg freezing/surrogacy/adoption are always options. Yay for modern technology! π
Ack, I don’t know if your Mormon friend’s assessment is reassuring or depressing. π I feel like taking care of myself and pursuing my goals are both integral to feeling like a whole person, so if having kids meant having to give up one of those, I don’t know if I’d feel like myself anymore. But then, maybe if I have kids I won’t care anymore. ;b
I believe that men’s lives do change a lot when they have kids, too, but I suspect that in many families, Dad’s idea of “being a good parent” doesn’t entail the same kinds of at-home responsibilities as Mom’s idea. That’s the part that freaks me out a bit, because even though I know Erik will be just as committed, we could still have different standards that would result in me doing a lot more.
And yes, adoption is always on the table with us. π
This is a huge subject for me, because I don’t think anyone should be encouraged to have kids before they’re ready! I know that it’s a fact that we have to decide way before the eggs are gone (unless one has enough money to freeze some eggs or embryos or whatever) but no one has a crystal ball to know what their experience will be like, or how it will impact all the other things they want to do in their lives. Just the hormones of pregnancy can change the way you view just about everything! Okay, maybe sometimes for the better, but who knows? Babies and children are absolutely wonderful for 15 minutes of every hour! I LOVE the little ones — but there are 60 minutes in EVERY hour! And kids are immature because they’re kids! They will never understand why you want or need to do anything that doesn’t strike them as important. Anyone who loves kids shouldn’t WANT to have them before they’re ready!
Sorry. I’m calmer now. The other side is what I’ve been feeling about my own daughter, which is that I’d like to be a grandmother before I’m too old to be able to pick up the baby. But that’s not her problem. One other thing is something that happened to an acquaintance: she was adamant about working mothers having a first allegiance to their jobs, or they shouldn’t be working. I kept saying that that can’t ever be, and an employer does society a disservice by expecting us to ignore our children’s reasonable needs in favor of making the money to feed them with. That fell on deaf ears. Then two years later when she had her own baby, she didn’t want to work overtime anymore, and finally couldn’t take the demands of the job at the expense of time spent with her family. She quit. Enough said.
I’m in your corner, Lisa! This is yours and your husband’s decision. Oh, and when you decide it’s a go, make sure I know what colors you want the sweaters to be!
Thank you, RΓ©! I know, it’s a huge subject for me too — this post is only the tip of that crazy iceberg. But your entire comment, and the sweaters remark in particular, warms my heart immeasurably. π β€
I'm glad to hear you say "Anyone who loves kids shouldnβt WANT to have them before theyβre ready!" — I'm glad to hear it from a mother! I feel this way myself, but some people (including many mothers) really act like I should want kids right now just because I can (we assume) have them.
I also agree that I don't think mothers should put their jobs first, and I don't think they can. As much as I love my art, I could never be one of those people who prioritizes her work above the people in her life. But that's part of what scares me about having kids someday; I know I'd put them before everything else, and then I worry I'll lose myself as a creative person with my own goals and projects. It is already much too easy to set aside my projects to do housework, or make crafts; I don't want to go from "big dreams Lisa" to "the mom whose creativity only emerges in her kids' school projects and lunches." I'm afraid having kids would not only make that happen, but would make me forget that the thought ever bothered me. π
i don’t want to blanket stereotype because i know there are always exceptions to the rule, and there are subtleties between how men and women feel life pressures. but the simple fact that men don’t feel the pressure of a biological clock means they can AFFORD to take time honing their career, taking care of themselves, pursuing their passions, and after all is established, THEN start a family. if, as a woman, you want kids the traditional way, the biological truth is that you don’t have the option of putting it off and waiting until you’re more “established” in the world. and it goes without saying how tough it is to balance a blossoming career and a blossoming family. the simple fact that men have this inborn option to wait relieves them of so many of the pressures that we feel as women (even if they don’t choose to exercise this option… they still have the CHOICE).
speaking from personal experience, the majority of men i know (in their 20s, 30s, and some even in their 40s) are far less concerned with how they’re going to balance their lives once family/children come along. they simply don’t worry and stress over it as much as the women i know do. it’s sort of assumed it will all come together somehow (which one could cynically argue is because of all the work a woman will end up doing behind the scenes). (to make things even more stressful for women, men are often all too happy to wait until their career has been established for a decade or more, and then when they’re ready to settle down, pick up a young girl straight out of college who is all too happy to give up everything for this suave, established older man…)
at the risk of sounding like a feminist on a poorly written rant, it really is tradition and biology that have widened the gap between how men and women sacrifice for their families and careers. in more modern times things have been changing and people have worked hard to close that gap, but the disparity (however unfair) still remains.
[i guess this topic means a lot to me too :P]
PS: in response to Shra & Re: there’s something to be said for having kids at a (relatively) younger age to have the luxury of being young enough to keep up with the kids and eventually with the grandkids. my dad had his first kid (me) at 42 and it is a very real concern for me that he might not be around to see either of his kids married, let alone have kids of their own.
I didn’t know your dad had you at 42! My mom had Al at 42, and Erik was born when his mom was 42, but they’re both the youngest child and not the first one. π Here’s to excellent health and longevity for both our dads! (And moms!) I’ve already given up on my grandpa being able to meet my children, but it would break my heart if my dad couldn’t. And with his diabetes and the way he doesn’t take care of himself, I do worry about it too.
You had me nodding and sighing and feeling outraged all over your second paragraph. I agree with everything you said, and would repeat again what I said to Bright above: guys’ standards so often seem different from women’s standards, too. Maybe it’s because so many women are detail-oriented overachievers to start with, but it just seems like so often, it’s Mom who knows things like who doesn’t like raisins and what day school portraits happen, whereas Dad just shows up when Mom tells him to, and maybe helps out with science projects or chaffeuring the family around. I don’t know. I’m stereotyping unnecessarily, and maybe my anger is misdirected, but I do think there’s so much unfair burden on women and even though men of my generation seem better than their dads, there’s still a long way to go.
I’ve had The Second Shift sitting on my bookshelf forever — maybe I should finally read it and get Arlie Hochschild’s insights. π
fun fact: my dad’s oldest brother is already a great-grandfather. his oldest daughter is 30+ years older than my dad’s youngest.
you’re lucky to have your gong-gong around for so long!! your gong-gong has already outlived my mom’s dad by over 40 years. i’ve only ever known 1 living grandparent (mom’s mom) and i can’t help but think: if i wait until i want to have kids, my dad might not ever meet them.
another “fun” fact: my dad’s dad died the day before i was born (…anyone believe in reincarnation? :P) and my dad had to miss the funeral.
*thinking healthy thoughts for everyone!!!*
Woah, those are some crazy family facts!
Your birth must have been a very emotional time for your dad!!
I’m so grateful Gong-Gong has been around for so much of my life, because he is the only grandparent I’ve ever known, too. He’s outlived at least some of his siblings, too, including the “healthy” ones who ate well and exercised (unlike him). π Gong-Gong’s only exercise was walking, he liked ice cream and pie for breakfast, and he smoked all his life until his first stroke!
Thank you all you amazing ladies for your thoughts on this subject, and thank you to Linda, Jennifer, and Alison who sent me their thoughts via other means than this blog. I will post more on this topic in future, I’m sure. π
[…] I should share my work with my parents, and I do a little bit, but it must not be enough because my mom still thinks I’m “not doing anything” (so I should get pregnant!) and my dad recently said […]
I just wanted to say that I enjoyed this thoughtful post and its comments. I have felt all those frustrations you mentioned, but would like to think that my writing is that much more brilliant now that I am a mother, rather than despite it. There’s definitely a longing for more time. I will say that being at home with my son, allows me to write more than I likely ever could if I were working a full-time job (I know because I did that for quite awhile, and it really sucked away at me–the last thing I wanted to do when I got home was sit in front of the computer). At the same time, it’s very frustrating that I can’t apply to long workshops or attend every literary reading without feeling guilty for not being at home with the family. Sometimes I worry that I won’t be able to keep up, but that doesn’t mean I have to give up.
Hi Jen! Thank you so much for reading and taking the time to comment. It’s good to hear motherhood doesn’t feel like an insurmountable drain on your creativity! It makes sense you worry about not keeping up, but I suspect everyone actually feels that way — as if there were some completely objective, required standard of perfection that everyone has to keep up to or die trying. What scares me about possibly having children is that I’m loving the level of engagement that I’m at, and I feel like I’m just starting as an artist, so I’d hate to lose that momentum before it’s even properly off the ground. But you and the other creative mothers I know do give me some hope. π
OH MY GOSH. I just found this via Making This Home and YES YES YES. I thought I would identify with you just a wee bit (before I read the post) but when saw the part about your mom’s suggestion and how you feel about parenting right now, etc. YES! I feel exactly the SAME WAY. I have no good role models for how I’d like to parent! Not to say that my parents, my friends and my acquaintances aren’t good parents–they are–but I need to see that I can still have the same life I have now (or similarly), just with children added into the mix. Many of my friends have changed drastically and it’s sad. I know that our lives do change with kids, but I just don’t want to be someone who gives up her entire self to become a mom. I’d rather be my SELF who happens to be a mom, too. Just as I’m a wife, daughter, sister, employee, friend, blogger, etc.
I will most likely have to work out of the home, and I don’t know ANYONE who has young children and works. I thought working moms were increasing? I’d prefer to SAH, but probably won’t be an option. Even if I do SAH, I still want to have time for me to do things–be it my crafts, projects around the house, etc. It won’t be all playtime and kid-centric things. It’s sad, because a HUGE part of my wanting to SAH is because I’m afraid that I couldn’t handle working, house stuff, being a wife, having friends, etc AND be a mom. Not that I have some crazy important job, but still. I don’t juggle that well. Plus, there aren’t any working moms at my company (of YOUNG children)–but finally, we have our VERY FIRST pregnant employee! (my co’s been around 11 yrs) So it should be interesting to see how things play out when the baby comes and Mom returns to work.
What a great post! Thanks for writing this.
Thank you so much for reading and commenting, Rabbit! (Eee, I’m so delighted that I get to address someone as Rabbit.) Yes, you’ve picked up on exactly what frightens me so much! I have great parents, but haven’t been able to watch anyone be a parent in the way I want to be a parent… and the meant-to-be-reassuring comments about how having a child changes you so dramatically often terrify me more than they comfort. I don’t want to be changed dramatically! ;b I’m sure it’s natural and inevitable and maybe even good, but it’s not something I’m presently able to welcome with open arms!
Oh wooooow. Thanks for pointing me to this old post, Lisa. I always love slipping into your mind to read these sorts of posts. I’m so glad you shared it. I just know I’ll be thinking of handmade and balance ALL NIGHT now. π
Thank you for checking in, Katie! π I loved reading your post today. I think about balance all the time… hope it makes its way into your sleep via good dreams. π